Why not merge with JuK?

This seems to come up fairly frequently with people who talk to me about Kiwi and its goals and the seeming redundancy when compared with JuK. At the risk of possibly offending wheels (which is completely not my intention), I do have a few reasons to continue developing Kiwi, and these reasons are all valid to me.

  • Kiwi is something that I like working on because it doesn't have the same design code-wise as JuK does. I like wheels, and I think he's a damned good coder, but I don't agree with all of his decisions about JuK's design and codebase.
  • Kiwi isn't actually behind JuK when it comes to features. JuK has searching, and tagging. We have global keyboard shortcuts, passive popup notification, and a DCOP interface. (No idea if JuK has any of these features yet, but it didn't last time I checked.)
  • Of course, personally, I think that we have a better infrastructure for future growth, but that might just be my pride talking.
  • We've finally abstracted out our backend API so that adding new Source types (internet radio, portable MP3/Ogg player, audio CD, etc) is going to be a snap.
  • wheels' aim for JuK is to make it a "media playing jukebox" which is a noble and admirable goal. But I want something as easy-to-use as iTunes, with extra care and attention paid to the UI and a clean design with optimizations where they're needed.
  • I want usable, well-designed (API-wise and UI-wise) software that does exactly what I need, and JuK fails this, not because it's a bad program or because wheels is evil, but because JuK isn't my project and wheels isn't me.

Now, those are my serious reasons for continuing development on Kiwi. There are, of course, a few silly and not-so-serious reasons for continuing development.

  • We have a half dozen CD burning apps, why not a half a dozen music players?
  • I like having a project of my own where I can't hurt anybody else or step on peoples' toes.
  • Binary metadata caching is for weenies.
  • When was the last time that you wanted cheese-covered french fries covered in bacon? Ok, it doesn't really have anything to do with Kiwi or JuK, but I'm hungry.
  • Lists suck.

So, there you have it. Just for the record, wheels and I did discuss the possibility of merging Kiwi and JuK, a Long Time Ago (TM) but I decided against it. I was excited about it at first, and I thought it would make a lot of sense, but after talking with my fellow Kiwi devels, I had to turn the opportunity down. The way I see it, JuK and Kiwi both have plenty of room to grow, and nobody loses, because we both suck less than Noatun. ;)


After so much talk about it. Where's the homepage, screenshots - where to download?

By KDE User at Mon, 07/21/2003 - 13:41

Yeah, what is this "Kiwi" of which you speak? ;)

KStars: A desktop planetarium for KDE

By Jason Harris at Mon, 07/21/2003 - 14:44

i think it's here :


By mikmak at Mon, 07/21/2003 - 16:53

Kiwi, noun, 1) A small flightless bird native to New Zealand, 2) Nickname for residents of New Zealand, renowned for their ingenity with minimal resources, persistence in the face of adversity, and serious over-achievement for their size in all fields of endevour. Antonom: see Aussie.

By KDE User at Sat, 07/26/2003 - 12:44

Well, there isn't any official homepage at the moment. We want it to be solid before we make a homepage extolling how great it is. I can rant about it in my blog all I like, but most users won't see my ranting. There are already plenty of users as it is, and it doesn't even have a homepage yet!

When we actually make our first real public official Kiwi release, there'll be a homepage to match it. Until then, we're hacking on it to make it rock even more.

By KDE User at Mon, 07/21/2003 - 17:41

fyi, juk does have a DCOP interface and passive popup notification (including some nice little forward and back buttons in the popup).

basically as i read it the two projects remain separated because of differences regarding code design, with some UI diffs sprinkled on top. and that's cool, beause it's your time to do with as you wish, right? better to be happy hacking on something you like that begrudgingly trodging through code you don't. =)

By Aaron J. Seigo at Mon, 07/21/2003 - 17:15

Actually JuK has had all three of the mentioned features (global keyboard shortcuts, passive popup notification, and a DCOP interface) for a few months...


By KDE User at Tue, 07/22/2003 - 22:33